I remember doing my research into jimmy carter vs Gerald ford,
It was shocking how little detail was offered by Carter in the election materials.
Now I am not so shocked by lack of detail in election materials.
The main deal with the president is who they bring with them into power and what the tone is for government.
Tom Spalding
--- On Sun, 2/24/08, Sandie <[address removed]> wrote:
> From: Sandie <[address removed]>
> Subject: Re: [johnedwards-397] Switchto Obama
> To: [address removed]
> Date: Sunday, February 24, 2008, 11:05 PM
> Hi everybody,
>
> Here's my latest research results. I really hope you
> all follow the links and do your own investigating.
> http://www.youdec...
>
> I've also been doing some research regarding both
> Hillary Clinton's and Barack Obama's voting record
> in the Senate. As most of you know, I've not been a
> big fan of Hillary Clinton's for a very long time.
>
> However, as I've said, when Edward's dropped out
> of the race, I had little choice but to choose between
> Obama and Clinton. I originally was leaning toward Obama
> as my second choice, but to be fair, I wanted to give
> Clinton a chance, and the only way to do that was to look
> at their debates, their interviews, their voting records,
> etc.
>
> After much research, scrutinization, and soul searching,
> I have come to the conclusion that Barack Obama is a poor
> second choice. I've learned and witnessed some things
> about Obama that I do not like.
>
> Never mind that he sounds more and more like a preacher
> with every speech he gives - I believe he's shrewdly
> doing that on purpose BECAUSE IT MAKES HIM SOUND LIKE
> MARTIN LUTHER KING. I find that somewhat disingenous.
>
> Obama has now started to allude to himself as a modern
> day Martin Luther King, and even another John F. Kennedy.
> But why? That allusion gave me pause to wonder what Obama
> has done that has put him in the same ball park as these
> two great leaders. So I went to his voting record to find
> out just what Obama stands for - and against.
>
> I must say that I am extremely disappointed in
> Obama's misrepresentation of himself, because it
> appears that Obama himself is merely a collection of lofty
> rhetoric, misleading allusions, and outright deceit.
>
> One of Clinton's allegations is that Obama seems to
> be MIA when it comes to casting votes in the Senate. I
> have found that allegation worthy of merit - in short,
> she's right.
>
> From Homeland Security, to illegal immigration, to voting
> for or against CONTINUING THE EDUCATION ACT OF 1965, OBAMA
> IS CONSISTENTLY NOT VOTING. Here's the url, check it
> out for yourself. You can access both the 109th & the
> 110th Congressional sessions.
> http://obama.sena...
>
> From here, you can see that Obama is selective on what
> items for which he casts a vote. Some are on the same day,
> so it's not just that he might have been out that entire
> day. When I called his office to ask why he was missing
> specific votes, my only answer was the "the Senator
> has not given any explanation." (At least
> Clinton's office says it's a "scheduling
> conflict" on the votes Hillary's missed, which
> have been very, very few.)
>
> We're not just talking a few missed votes here and
> there on insignificant legislation. We're talking
> massive numbers of votes not being cast one way or the
> other, and on important legislation, for example, on
> extending the education bill of 1965. Or on controversial
> bills having to do with Iran, Iraq, Homeland Security,
> illegal immigration, etc.
>
> This is a very disturbing pattern that tells a very
> disturbing story. The story says that here is an
> individual that doesn't like to be pinned down when
> push comes to shove. The story says plainly and clearly
> that this is an individual that doesn't like to take
> sides.
>
> Well, I'm so sorry, Mr. Obama, but as President of
> the United States, take sides you must, and I fear you are
> not up to the task.
>
> Mr. Obama is in some very good company, though, when it
> comes to not voting - much of the time, one of his co
> non-voters is.....John McCain!
>
> When you look at the voting record, you can see what the
> legislation is, and you can see who else voted for,
> against, or abstained from voting. So you'll also be
> able to see Clinton's record at the same time, if you
> so decide.
>
> At least with Clinton, you know where she stands. And
> from perusing her voting record, I have to say that she
> stands heads and shoulders above Barack Obama.
>
> In my opinion, Barack Obama is another George W. Bush -
> all talk and buffoonery.
>
> Both say they'll bring change, but neither say WHAT,
> specifically, that change will be. Oh, Obama alludes to
> alot of things - like racial inequality, racial profiling,
> etc. But he never says ANYTHING SPECIFIC THAT HE'LL DO
> TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM. That way, he's dangling the
> race card in front of every African American and every
> white person who cares about civil rights. He's making
> people think he's going to do great things....BUT SO DID
> BUSH, AND IN THE EXACT SAME WAY.
>
> Obama also says he'll 'reconcile' Dems and
> Repubs. How is that any different than Bush, who said
> he'd "unite" Dems and Repubs? It isn't.
>
> People are giving Obama way too much credit and not
> enough scrutinization. If I were the people of Illinois,
> I'd fire him, because they're paying him to
> represent them, and he's NOT DOING AN ADEQUATE JOB
> BECAUSE HE MISSES SO MANY CRUCIAL VOTES. Or rather,
> he's there, but he just abstains from voting.
>
> He's clever, he's sly, but I believe he's
> duplicitous and disingenuous.
>
> What has he done that puts him on the same playing field
> as Martin Luther King? Has Obama attacked poverty? NO.
> In fact, Hillary Clinton was absolutely correct in that
> Obama has worked for slum lords. That's appalling!
>
> I have also found no difference between the corporatist
> monies that both Obama and Clinton accept.
> www.vote-smart.org and www.opensecrets.org .
>
> I think Obama is waging the better psychological battle
> to win voters, and I also believe that the GOP-owned
> mainstream media wants nothing more than for John McCain to
> run against Barack Obama, because Obama lives in a
> "house of cards." It's all illusion, hype,
> and show.
>
> Clinton does have a solid record. She serves on
> corporate boards, yes, but she also serves on the human
> rights and women rights boards, and she has done alot in
> the realm of civil rights.
>
> OBAMA HAS NOT LIFTED A FINGER TO DEAL WITH ANY OF THESE
> ISSUES.
>
> I'm sorry, but I'm a big believer in the old
> adage "put your money where your mouth is". I
> hear Obama sounding more and more like a southern preacher
> with every speech he gives, and he does this because he
> wants voters to make the connection between him and Martin
> Luther King. Very disingenuous. Smart, because it's
> apparently working, but a tad disingenuous all the same.
>
> I'm still waiting for Obama to come down off his
> arrogant high horse and tell me something specific - i.e.,
> WHAT and HOW. To date, he hasn't. Yes, he has his
> issues on his website. But look at them, REALLY look at
> them. They're incomplete, they don't give details,
> and they designed to make people think Obama's going to
> be the greatest thing since sliced bread, as long as people
> don't think too much about what's missing.
>
> I have to give Clinton credit that her plans are
> detailed, sometimes lengthily so, and she also says how
> she's going to implement her plans.
>
> Obama is giving voters a very similar message, and a very
> similar campaign, as that of George W. Bush in 2000. VOTERS
> BEWARE. How many times can we get the wool pulled over our
> eyes?
>
> Apparently Obama thinks at least one more time.
> Don't get fooled again.
>
>
> Tom Spalding <[address removed]> wrote:
> I have paid for six months of edwards meetups!
>
> I cannot think of a better lost cause.
>
> Still looking at the following inquiry I got today.
>
>
> What carol smith wrote:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> With Edwards out are you still having this meetup? I am
> interesting in the One America concept - what does that
> mean?
> I believe in the American System of political economy and
> want
> to return this nation to that FOUNDING principle. This is
> Henry
> Clay's system in particular - ridding us of the plague
> of
> globalization and free trade as well as the Federal Reserve
> and
> returning to a national bank with the power of currency OUT
> of
> the hands of the financial elite - the power of tariffs to
> END
> free trade and the focus of government spending on the
> vital
> infrastructure of the nation to build back American with
> good
> paying union jobs and those protections for the people of
> the
> nation - not the lobbyists, financiers and looters.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Tom Spalding
>
>
> --- On Fri, 2/15/08, Treva Duffy wrote:
>
> > From: Treva Duffy
> > Subject: Re: [johnedwards-397] Switchto Obama
> > To: [address removed]
> > Date: Friday, February 15, 2008, 12:03 PM
> > Dear Sandie,
> >
> > Thanks you for taking time to write a well thought out
>
> > "statement of the
> > case" for Hillary. You are obviously and
> intelligent
> > and articulate person.
> > Like you, I am interested in the three issues that you
> > focused on a great
> > deal...as well as the role of science in government,
> which
> > does not get enough
> > discussion. Global warming, space exploration, the
> decline
> > of the bee population,
> > a dearth of water in some U.S. areas, and natural
> > disasters a BIG issue to
> > me. You can read a letter to the editor I wrote to the
> > Courier Journal on Jan.
> > 30 as a concerned environmentalist. It was entitled
> > "Godfather of Green?"
> > and it was written in opposition to Mitch
> McConnell's
> > t.v. ad promoting himself
> > as an environmental mentor. Using the League of
> > Conservation literature
> > primarily, I exposed his real record on the
> environment,
> > and the ad was
> > discontinued. Maybe the discontinuance was
> > coincidental...maybe it was a cause-effect
> > situation, but it is gone.
> >
> > I am a retired school teacher with diabetes,
> hypertension,
> > and arthritis,
> > so, like you health care is a prime concern of mine. I
> > gather that it is your
> > main concern since you are uninsured. I certainly can
> > understand why this
> > issue is high on your priority list. I have a pretty
> good
> > plan, but meds are
> > still very expensive...and, luckily, I have not
> "hit
> > a wall" with one huge
> > medical bill so far. I am concerned that 47 million
> > Americans are not insured. In a
> > country as wealthy as this one, there is no excuse for
> > this large number of
> > our citizens to be lacking medical attention or to
> need to
> > use emergency
> > rooms for their first recourse in any case. I would
> like
> > to see a single payer
> > health program enacted. It would be affordable, give
> those
> > of us who like the
> > doctors we have to keep them, and all of us would be
> > covered. The failure of
> > the poor children's health bill to pass was a
> national
> > disgrace! I think that
> > this needs to be a VERY high priority of the next
> > president.
> >
> > I have heard that Obama's health plan would not
> cover
> > 15% of the people. Is
> > that the wealthiest 15% or the poorest 15%. I do not
> know.
> > Hillary's plan is
> > supposed to cover everyone, but, since I have been in
> the
> > protracted business
> > of moving over the last 3 months, I have not had time
> to
> > learn the finer
> > points. Hillary's last healthcare plan failed
> > decisively to pass, I remember. I
> > trust Obama's promise to represent to poor and
> middle
> > class on the issues
> > that most concern them. I do not trust Hillary at all!
> > Obama was NOT born with
> > a "silver spoon in his mouth" as Hillary
> was.
> > Read his autobiography, The
> > Audacity of Hope, and I think you will see that his
> early
> > years were not a "bed
> > of roses."
> >
> > As I see it, Obama has taken PAC money , and no doubt
> some
> > corporate money,
> > but Hillary has literally been "bought" by
> > special interests. That hardly
> > keeps her fighting for the most vulnerable of our
> > citizens. The folks who
> > "bought " Bush, have paid for Hillary. I
> think
> > that Hillary and Bill are driven by
> > blind ambition, and that Obama does hope to uplift the
> > people....just my
> > "take" on both of them. Bill's
> sleaziness of
> > the last few weeks have turned me
> > off of a man I used to think was an effective leader.
> It
> > took a "choke up" by
> > Hillary before the NH primary to get people to believe
> > that Hillary was human.
> > I can see Barak's humanity. She is a
> > "pitbull" who tends to go for the
> > jugular, and he defends himself, but he does not
> attack
> > when questioned as she
> > does. It relates to integrity, civility, and
> diplomacy.
> > She is highly
> > intelligent...."driven" one might say. I
> think
> > you sell him short in the intelligence
> > department. She is shrewd, practiced, and
> manipulative.
> > She is also geared to
> > keep the presentation to "nuts and bolts."
> Both
> > do their homework, but Obama
> > can unite and inspire...she can't.
> >
> > This is a tale that is not particularly inspiring when
> > examining Obama and
> > Hillary. When the immigration bill was coming to a
> vote,
> > theirs were the two
> > votes that had not been cast. Both sat eyeing the
> other to
> > see what the other
> > would do. Finally, close to cloture, Obama cast his
> vote
> > and only then did
> > she cast hers...a reflection of his. Leaders do not
> behave
> > like this.
> >
> > Hillary CHEATED in Florida. As you know, all of the
> > Democratic candidates
> > agreed not to campaign in Michigan and Florida because
> > these two states had
> > broken the DNC rules about moving their primaries
> forward.
> > Hillary went to
> > Florida and "won" the caucus which does not
> > actually award delegates, and no other
> > Dems' names were on the ballot. She is a
> cut-throat. I
> > respect intelligence;
> > I do not respect this kind of duplicity. Obama and the
> > other Democratic
> > candidates followed the rules that each of them had
> agreed
> > to; Hillary didn't. I
> > value integrity highly...especially after the Bush
> > atrocities in that regard
> > (935 counted lies on gov. policy!). As for
> intelligence,
> > as a member of
> > Mensa, I know many VERY intelligent people, but I do
> not
> > hang out with the ones
> > who are without diplomatic and social skills. I see
> Barak
> > as personable and
> > inclined toward peace. It is a more of an attractor to
> me
> > than the blazing,
> > manipulative, autocratic persona of Hillary. No one is
> > questioning that she is
> > smart, but, he is smart with a "balance
> wheel."
> >
> > As for the Iraq war....I was protesting in the streets
> > months before the
> > actual invasion of Baghdad and still participate in
> > demonstrations against this
> > unnecessary and trumped up war of Bush. HILLARY voted,
> in
> > my opinion for
> > expediency and what she thought would do HER career
> the
> > most good. Now that it is
> > obvious what a disasterous mistake the Iraq
> > "war" was and is, she refuses
> > to admit and error of her vote (and supplemental
> votes,
> > and the Patriot Act
> > vote). I think it is a serious character flaw not to
> be
> > able to apologize or to
> > admit mistakes. Hillary shares that character flaw
> with
> > George Bush.
> >
> > Robert Reich, Clinton's Sec. of Labor, stated the
> case
> > for incorporating the
> > illegal immigrants into our society after they had
> learned
> > English, paid
> > fines, lived up to all the requirements that all
> aliens
> > need to follow, and
> > gotten to the end of the line. It is NOT amnesty. He
> says
> > that our society NEEDS
> > their presence in low-level jobs to keep social
> security
> > afloat. The
> > onslaught of the "baby boomers" are just now
>
> > entering the payoff time in the soc.
> > sec. system and there are NOT enough people in our
> > population coming along to
> > keep the system financed. Newly minted, naturalized
> > citizens would have to be
> > paying into the system. Likewise, these newcomers
> function
> > for the most part
> > on a very simple level, so their earned wages get
> applied
> > to homes, food,
> > commodities,etc. That is a stimulus to the economy.
> > Furthermore, the babies these
> > illegals produced in America are fully American
> citizens.
> > The situation of
> > trying to separate babies from parents is not morally
> > right. Reich was
> > eloquent, and I tend to see it his way. There are
> natural
> > born American citizens who
> > would work at roofing, fruit picking, grunt work of
> > landscaping.....but not
> > for the low wages that illegals have. These people are
> not
> > taking jobs from
> > willing Americans. Americans have learned not to work
> for
> > "peanuts."
> > Outsourcing is another matter. I want to see any
> American
> > outsourcer lose any tax
> > benefits....John Kerry's idea.
> >
> > With Hillary beholden to groups that pressed
> Bush-Cheney
> > for war like the
> > Carlyle Group, Blackwater, Halliburton,
> Ingersoll-Rand, I
> > say that America is
> > LESS likely to get out of Iraq with her. I do not like
> her
> > hawkish ways. I
> > think that she thinks that she has to prove that she
> is
> > "tough" because she is a
> > woman, and she has taken some pretty rigid stands. I
> am
> > much more inclined
> > to support a "bridge-builder" who can be
> tough
> > than a tough who wants to
> > "throw her weight around" unilaterally. We
> have
> > had the arrogant imperialist type
> > in George Bush, and you see where it has gotten us.
> >
> > Apart from the issue....I do not like Hillary. I like
> > Bill Clinton much
> > less than I did before he started this sleazy
> campaign. I
> > have heard Barak speak
> > in person on two occasions, and he was electrifying.
> He is
> > a "breath of
> > fresh air." It is true that he is an unknown
> quantity
> > to some degree, but I would
> > rather cast my lot with him than her. I strongly
> question
> > Hillary's claim to
> > "35 years of experience." Does being a first
> > lady give her hands on
> > experience? As you suggested, she has been privy to
> quite
> > a lot, I would guess, while
> > Bill discussed issues with her, but that is not the
> same
> > as having to be the
> > leader. Considering Obama's many years in the
> Illinois
> > senate as well as his
> > few years in the U.S. senate, he actually has more
> years
> > as a legislator
> > than she does. I do hear that New Yorkers are VERY
> > supportive of the job Hillary
> > has done for them in the U.S. senate for 7 years.
> >
> > Hillary cannot be the candidate of
> "experience"
> > and have taken such
> > truckloads of campaign money from corporations and
> still
> > legitimately call herself
> > the "candidate of change." Hillary borrowed
> > that change line from Edwards and
> > Obama because it was resonating with the people. She
> > can't have it both
> > ways.
> >
> > I am so sorry that John Edwards did not make a
> stronger
> > showing. He was the
> > first with full-fledged plans for getting out of Iraq,
> the
> > economy, and so
> > many other issues. He beat the drum against
> > "corporatism," which under the Bush
> > regime has turned to FASCISM. The others have not
> taken up
> > that cry because
> > of their corporate donations. Edward apparently took
> NO
> > PAC money or lobbyist
> > money. I think we lost a good man in him.
> >
> > Well, Sandie, I have to go to a luncheon, and I am not
> > even dressed. Thanks
> > for hearing my "take" on the Democratic
> > elections. As for the Kentucky
> > senatorial election...I do not know any of the
> candidates,
> > and I do not think any
> > of them is going to topple Mitch. Too bad.
> >
> > Take care!
> >
> > Treva
> >
> >
> >
> > **************The year's hottest artists on the
> red
> > carpet at the Grammy
> > Awards. Go to AOL Music.
> >
> (http://music.aol....)
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
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>
>
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> This message was sent by Tom Spalding
> ([address removed]) from The Louisville John Edwards /
> One America Meetup Group.
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>
>
> "The care of human
> life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first
> and only object of good government."
> - Thomas Jefferson
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